Forms of Address Saturday, Jun 9 2007
Language and Culture 9:50 pm
Miss Dessie Octavia Vargas recalled:
One thing we discussed was the intimate form of address, “thou”, now obsolete in English. Almost all of us have at least enough knowledge of some European language to know that there are different words for the second person according to whether one is intimate with them or formal: “Usted” and “tu” in Spanish, “Sie” and “du” in German, and so on.
By coincidence, on a mailing list I’m on, just yesterday a German pette was asked a question about the use of the German “du”. One thing she said seems relevant: schoolchildren address their classmates as “du”, but only since the Eclipse (not that she called it that) have college students begun doing the same.
It made me so sad to learn that. It makes me glad we’ve stopped using the intimate form in English, since if we still had it bongos would doubtless misuse it.
Lady Aquila commented:
People have often talked about a revival of the intimate-singular “thou” in Telluristasian usage. It is a very charming form, used properly. But Miss Vargas is quite right in saying that it is fortunate that Tellurians have lost it as they would undoubtedly be misusing it by now.
The widespread abuse of first-names in Telluria is the exact equivalent of the wrongful use of “tu” in France or “du” in Germany. In fact some more civilised English people (of whom there is a tiny handful left) refer to this outlandish first-naming of everyone as “tutoiement” which is the French term for “tu-ing” and “toi-ing” people inappropriately.
Among some Tellurians the avoidance of surnames is almost a taboo, so that when two Jims have to be distinguished, they will say “Jim from Woodford” or “Jim with the beard”. It has an almost mediaeval ring to it. Perhaps eventually these cognomens will become hereditary and they will have surnames again!
One sometimes wonders what lies behind this horror of the surname. A false intimacy, certainly. A crude egalitarianism too. But is it not also a near-psychotic individualism that hates to associate a person with her roots in estate or even in family? Each person must be a floating atom belonging to no-one but herself (and the Octopus), with no roots and nothing but a personal name.
The new bonds which many of us form in Aristasia are for us a new rootedness and the beginnings of a sound, wholesome and home-like non-atomised society.
May 15, 2008 at 8:33 am
Reading Lady Aquila’s comments and Miss Vargas’s original posting on forms of address brings to mind the two very distinct Culverian institutions of which I am a member.
First the public school system: Convention requires me to use the rather unflatering Ms. Ruger for professional reasons, as it is unseemly I guess to refer to secondary level instructeresses as Miss. However when I did tutoring after school for a national company, we used our first names with our without a title, in this case it was Miss Sylvia. I still cringe when teenagers use my first name in any context.
This brings me to the other institution which in many ways clings on tradition’s of pre-Eclipse Culveria even when it is firmly established in promoting the policies of post Elcipse America. That being the armed services.
Superiors are adressed in most cases as either Sir or Ma’am, or by rank and surname, such as Colonel Jones. Subordinates, except by the most patronizing of superiors, are always referred to rank and surname, such as Sergeant Smith. Some superiors refer to their subordinates by first name.
Peers are formally refered to by their rank and surname, casually by last name or informally by first name. Such as Major Green or Cindy, if the speaker is also a Major or possibly a co-worker of the same level but one rank above or below.
Warrant officers (a rank level between senior enlisted and commissioned officers) use Mr. or Ms. or informally Chief and surname, such as Ms. Watson or Chief Watson, if she is higher than WO1.
These titles apply to the Army, the Navy has its own forms of address, officers below a certain level are refered to Mr. or Ms. and surname, and senior enlisted are always called chief, either with the surname or not.
Since the Culverian form of English is even more informal than the standard form, it is quite interesting to see how the “progressive” education movement has taken titles of address and how the “traditonal” military inists on keeping formal address and likewise discipline but that is another matter all together.